They will someday, but they don't now. My question is really about controllability. This is particularly useful for pairs of engines, since this makes it possible to keep the thrust equal when activating the afterburners. *I use FAR these days, which basically means completely replacing every spaceplane and rocket you ever designed to account for its much more realistic aerodynamics. Since turbos are almost always enough to get you off the ground and up to altitude, I usually just do straight turbojets (with some RAPIERs for SSTO spaceplanes); the minute amount of fuel saved during the ascent isn't worth lugging those superfluous engines around at the hypersonic regime. Ok, the panther engine is still not good enough. High altitude flight is efficient because the air is thinner, and therefore aircraft experience less parasitic drag. I am currently designing a mission that will involve several very long distance plane flights. Yes, you can get into that range with the high end stuff (whiplash engines and ram or shock cone air intakes). - "In Space Low" means your craft is inside the "Space Border" altitude and in an orbital path. - Spamming airintakes didn't help. Pasted as rich text. Thanks, I'll go try to stuff a few extra turbojets and intakes on my plane Do you know how many intakes/turbojet are needed to run in the regime you described? The U-2 is probably the highest altitude aircraft still flying. Upload or insert images from URL. Unfortunately I won't be able to test it today, but @SaintWacko's proposal sounds promising. Or about the same speed but 1000 m higher. It only takes a minute to sign up. Redoing the align environment with a specific formatting, Trying to understand how to get this basic Fourier Series. - Insane TWR didn't help. Minimising the environmental effects of my dyson brain, Theoretically Correct vs Practical Notation. Best way to get down into thicker air and land is to perform what dogfighters called a 'Split-S'. One of my planes is small and agile, and can easily enough glide to a safe landing even if the rockets consume all the fuel. if you just go into the SPH, slap together some parts like Legos, and go-- is to attach them with zero AoA. In addition to the traditional giant tube of explosions that flings things up high approach, Kerbal Space Program includes a very useful piece of equipment that became quite popular in the 20th century: wings.. You are just about at maximum speed and at the same time very close to stall speed. It'll probably be more efficient with more intakes, but I wouldn't increase the number of engines. What am I doing wrong here in the PlotLegends specification. Using very light "engine rich" planes and "reverse swooping" (building velocity at 10km then gently curving up) you can temporarily get above 20km with Wheesely and Juno. That would oscillate slowly between 16000m and 17000m but was otherwise fully controllable. Also, while you mentioned the TJs most efficient altitude is ~ 5km (I'm not sure, but lets assume it's true), you need to realize that the drag you're getting at that altitude is going to wreck any efficiency gains. I tried building a plane but can't climb higher than about 11,000m (I don't have many plane parts yet, though). KSP also tends to have very harsh induced drag if angle of attack gets too high. Grichmann's answer has been the most reliable way I've found to complete these missions. Once you're at that regime, you should be able to cover huge distances on tiny amounts of fuel. Then it is "In Space Low over Mun.". You do get certain inertial and lever-arm effects, but those aren't really relevant to 'do I have enough lift to stay up'. Pasted as rich text. Jets drop thrust at higher altitude and speed, but also drop . Build a plane or rocket for Kerbal high altitudes, We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup, Screenshot of the Week #85 [Submissions Closed - Vote Now!]. Things that work at low altitude don't work so well up high and the plane ends up going up and down while slowly losing speed until it can't maintain altitude anymore. At 3500m, you have half the drag you'd have at the surface; at 7km, 1/4 the drag, at 10.5km, 1/8 the drag, etc. Espaol - Latinoamrica (Spanish - Latin America), https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1933948095, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1933948668, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1934517923, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1335577943, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1640213502, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1640214586, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1937826505, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1937931692. Remember that you need to have intakes somewhere in line with the engine to function at that altitude. That will unlock: It may work with stock too, I just don't know. The most efficient way is, of course, to make a high altitude (or space) plane. 3x06: I design a new, high altitude, jet to collect high atmospheric science. Proceed with caution. Download (104.45 MiB) License: CC BY-NC-SA 4.0 Game Version: 1.8.1 Downloads: 371,115 Author: blackheart612 Mod Website: Forum Thread Support this mod: Donate Followers: 626 Outdated Mod This mod is not known to work with the latest version of Kerbal Space Program. - "In Space High" means your craft is inside the given Sphere of Influence and above the "Space Border" altitude listed in the Celestial Body Multiplier Matrix. Your link has been automatically embedded. The U-2's published maximum altitude is somewhere above 74,000 feet. 1.) Originally posted by lord bird: yep thats right jool has a surface. It is stable but can not maintain altitude. I got this game so I could over-engineer rockets, so I mostly ignore the airplanes. KSP Career: Episode 13 - High Altitude Surveys Mike Aben 28.5K subscribers Subscribe 7.7K views 7 years ago Day 114: A busy day at the KSC with three missions, the highlights being the launch. Your previous content has been restored. I was hoping that the new intakes would give it the added altitude. This way control surface max deflection can be programmed by an aircraft designer to make . Planes in Space. And it's stock, unfortunately. With some fins to keep you stable and careful aim, you can hit your desired location and altitude and will have 5-10 seconds to collect data before you hurtle past it and pull your chute. Main goals: Auto-trimming. I didn't try for 20000m as it probably wouldn't do well. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. ksp high altitude planebad bunny tour 2022 tickets ksp high altitude plane. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Its an approximation missing someelements. I looked into the .cfg files and there are no special properties allocated to them. It's Kerbal Space Program v.22! It was meant for low altitude flight. Powered by Invision Community. Did any DOS compatibility layers exist for any UNIX-like systems before DOS started to become outmoded? By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. You can halve the drag by climbing a bit less than 3500m. 101 kPa 1 atm Scale Height 5000 m Atmospheric Height 69 077.553 m 1.010-6 atm Minimum Temprature -40.19 C 232.96 K Maximum Temprature 20 C 293.15 K Oxygen Present Yes Contents 1 Kerbin 2 Topography 3 Kerbal Space Center 4 Atmosphere 4.1 The Troposphere 4.2 The Stratosphere 4.3 The Thermosphere 4.4 The Exosphere 5 The Kerbin System 5.1 The Mun Slap that behind a plane you'll be able to go beyond 20km without any trouble. I recommend using a solid rocket booster (or 2 or 5) to you get you the altitude and then launch a small rocket powered plane. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Something that I think has become less clear since someone updated the wiki. I was even able to do this with three pairs of Junos instead of the large jet engine pair (I don't have the technology level for that). Is it suspicious or odd to stand by the gate of a GA airport watching the planes? Which is capable of high altitude, high speed flight. I wasn't expecting so many excellent answers! Should i add a larger wing area for higher lift? It's also worth noting that this engine has the widest thrust vectoring range of all of the jet engines, with a full 10-degree range in all directions. Grichman's answer got me in the right direction. Which makes this engine ideal for those missions which require doing many science activities above particular altitudes. below 5,000 m), since the engine's extreme maneuverability may allow the aircraft to perform turns sharply enough to break up in flight. I've added more engines, more intakes to no avail. I don't have that other stuff yet. Paste as plain text instead, Or try using SRBs instead. Make sure you have lots of control surfaces because at very high in the atmosphere, there's not much air for the wings to control the craft with. Why that? I also set it to enable the cockpit's reaction wheels to improve control at high altitude, and close air intakes to reduce drag. Editing Kerbal Space Program save files for KSO, Rasterpropmonitor for Kerbal Space Program. You get tons of thrust if you put it into "wet" mode, but you lose fuel efficiency. jet engine efficiency in this game is based on built in thrust curves. Are you using Stock or NEAR/FAR? If your using NEAR/FAR, once you get high and fast, kill the engine and glide to save fuel. Powered by Invision Community. The Panther engine can hold 19,000 steady and oscillates around 20,000. The most efficient way is, of course, to make a high altitude (or space) plane. - Inside the atmosphere works the same way, except you need to be on an suborbital trajectory. Even better, burn a little more, and you can pop out of the atmosphere for a bit and avoid all that nasty drag stuff. If it's below the cross-hairs, you need a little more AoA. Delta-V is the velocity change necessary to perform orbital maneuvers. As I understand, the OP wanted "the most efficient way to fly", and simply needed a bit of help in realizing that that is a hypersonic, high-altitude, high-performance aircraft which is a RAPIER and a little oxidizer away from being an SSTO spaceplane. Immediately starting rocket engines at full throttle turned out to make most of my aircrafts totally unstable, turning them up gradually worked way better. rev2023.3.3.43278. With only panthers unlocked I might add. Which lets you go faster, which lets you climb higher. To avoid running out of fuel altogether, I have a second plane with small tanks (no oxidizer) attached directly to the jet engines, and the rockets attached behind the fuselage, which is entirely oxidized tanks. At that point your engines will be running about .7-.8 efficiency and you will be out of the thicker atmo which will allow you to go faster. Your airspeed is mostly limited by terminal velocity; you can go much faster if you climb a little higher. At sea level, it produces 120 kn thrust, but at 15 km altitude, it only produces 13.7 kn of thrust, barely enough to provide any thrust to climb higher, Long and narrow wing has less surface area to provide lift, and at higher altitude, the atmospher is so thin that the lift generated by long and narrow wings is insufficient for sustainable flight. So Pvt. I've been trying my hand at some High altitude speedy planes for a while now, but can't seem to get a hang of the altitudes that each engine likes, I know kerbal isn't earth, so looking up the crushing altitude of say the sr71, doesn't seem to apply, but I was hoping that others experiences would help me. Third, which I haven't given a good try, would be a carefully-timed deorbit maneuver so you come down through your desired location as you fall from space. Your previous content has been restored. Is it possible to get to an altitude of 16-20km with normal plane engines? high-1 A Screenshot of Kerbal Space Program By: miklkit This is the current version. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. Is anywhere a list of the altitude levels (I don't know a better term) available? Air temperatures vary with latitude and time of day. When you are surrounded by plenty of air there will of course be no need to suck in air artificially but the higher you get the less dense the air around you becomes and in order to make sure that your engines have enough oxygen to burn the fuel it needs to suck air in forcefully. If the wings are flat and your plane steadily loses altitude in level flight at a given speed (as most designs will by default), it means you either need to pitch up slightly, increasing the angle of attack and keeping your vertical velocity at 0 by flying up slightly to compensate for the pull of gravity that lift isn't compensating for. Thanks. lost birth certificate near berlin; ksp high altitude plane. This makes jets built using this engine considerably more maneuverable. That's because wings need to have some AoA to the airstream in order to generate much lift. 2/3 (KSP 1.11.2) - YouTube I break out the Mk2 parts and Panther engines to build a better jet that can go higher and faster. Subscribe -. From my experience using a panther it starts to lose speed after 15-16 kms, a more suitable cruising height is 9-13km. You can post now and register later. This means that the only thing that decides wheter your engines run efficient is determined by how much thrust they produce (opt. Any advices for building a vehicle for this task? For example, the RAPIER engine doesn't seem as the first choice as the "best" high altitude air-breathing engine but in long-distance and high-altitude challenges it is. The other one I stay around 6000 meters. The SR-71 could probably fly higher, but it isn't flying any more. Kerbal Space Program 2 . How to make a loop for linear actuator in Kerbal Space Program, Breaking Ground. Also, Valley and Theomon fly to different corners of Kerbin and three mapping satellites are launched. Subscribe - http://www.youtube.com/c/MikeAben?sub-confirmation=1 Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/MikeAbenPatreon supporters receive early, ad-free, access to videos, kOS and craft files, and more. Discord - https://discord.gg/HTvT7dZ Making Space Home Playlist - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLB3Ia8aQsDKhqoFyoZ4d33MG7rS9KmDm_0:00 - Designing the Dudley Mk16:42 - Test Flights \u0026 Iterating13:45 - Col. Valley take the Seaplane to the Northern Ice Shelf19:30 - Launch \u0026 Insertion of the Maxwell Vb21:04 - Col. Theomon \u0026 Orlin Visit the Badlands in the Panther24:20 - Launch \u0026 Ejection of the Maxwell VI26:34 - Designing the SENTINEL 129:47 - Launch \u0026 Insertion of the Maxwell VIIFull List of Mods: Aviation Lights Chatterer Community Tech Tree Crew R\u0026R Croud Sourced Science Contract Configurator Contract Packs: Bases and Stations Reborn CommNet Relays Exploration Plus Field Research Kerbal Academy Tourism Plus Contracts Window+ Decoupler Shroud Easy Vessel Switch Kerbal Alarm Clock Kerbal Attachment System Kerbal Construction Time Kerbal Engineer Redux Kerbal Inventory System Kerbalism kOS KRASH Maneuver Node Evolved Navball Alignment Indicator Near Future Aeronautics Near Future Construction Near Future Electrical Near Future Propulsion Near Future Solar Near Future Spacecraft Persistent Rotation Rational Resources RCS Build Aid Continued Restock Restock+ SCANsat Scrapyard SMART Parts Stage Recovery Stockalike Station Parts Expansion Redux TAC Fuel Balancer Texture Replacer Trajectories Transfer Window Planner Universal Storage 2 Unkerballed Start Waypoint Manager Just sounds like the engines can't get enough air, in KSP high speed also generates air intake so I'm guessing what is happening is that you have the initial speed to get to altitude but the lack of air at altitude is starving the engine resulting in lower speed which further reduces air intake and it cascades until either the engine shuts down or you return to denser atmosphere at a lower altitude. FAR is supposed to take aspect into account, but I'm not very experienced with it and cannot advice you as to how it works. Upload or insert images from URL. Another approach, which I was managing with some success before I figured out jets, is to build a rocket and catapult yourself towards the measurement point. The Rapier, for example, works great as a high-altitude engine, precisely because it can go so fast. You can spin around the whole world on just fumes. Maneuver node plans don't take drag into account, so you'll have to overshoot quite a bit to compensate. as a rule of thumb they all lose thrust at higher altitudes and at high velocities. Due to the lower air pressure at higher altitudes its thrust output decreases accordingly. How to know if you've nailed it perfectly: when you're cruising in level flight, you want the marker to be precisely centered in your navball cross-hairs. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers.. Visit Stack Exchange Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. How do I install mods for Kerbal Space Program 1.1? She has a horrible turn rate and oscillates a couple of thousand meters at cruise, but it's flyable. Be sure to have enough intakes (I think maximum efficiency in stock is 1 ramjet intake per ~2 tons of plane, though that is aesthetically ridiculous), and if you're still running short of intake air, you can dip down a bit to speed up and get to denser air. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. As high and fast as you can go without engine flameout: preferably ~2000 m/s at 25-30 km (and yes, that's almost orbital velocity). Unfortunately, most space plane designs are impossible (or at the very least impractical) at your current tech level. More air is better. 1 Pod outside the level 3 VAB. (Actually, four ways: but balloons aren't in the stock game) Lifting surfaces are great but they lose effectiveness just as fast with altitude as drag falls. I decided to look into that two intakes thing, and it turns out to make 11-12 m/s difference at 19,000m with my plane. It will be expensive and time consuming. Running the 60U engine at about 40U seems to give me a good balance between reduced drag and air intake. The returns are diminishing so eventually you will hit a ceiling. I didn't succeed with his design, though; I always ended up having somehow unstable airplanes. How can I make money in the new career mode? A destructible memorial to the old Mk. In this chapter, you ll learn about the Space Plane Hangar, a building that forms part of the Kerbal . Right now, my big, fat plane has trouble breaking 10 km altitude and 200 m/s forward speed (largely due to its payload). http://kerbalspaceprogram.com, Press J to jump to the feed. Cookie Notice However, I've failed to build a vehicle to achieve this (without a hundred retries). Content titles and body; Content titles only In the main KSP settings menu you should set the default throttle to 1.0 (technically the above mechjeb setting winds up restoring the default throttle, so it needs to be 1.0) In the attitude adjustment menu make sure you are using the "better controller" Whack the 45 degree phase margin button Whack the restore all other defaults button Welcome to the forums, ZDW. You arent doing anything wrong. Orbiting is the most fun one: the higher the orbit, the less speed you need to maintain to stay in orbit, *and* the less air there is, so that's a double-whammy in terms of reducing fuel consumption. The sweet spot for the upper atmo engines, I find, is between 10k and 12k. Additionally please know that .16 will feature new code that will change the way space planes work in every aspect. - but they were talking about having two intakes/engine. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Double your speed, you need twice as much fuel. I've since shaved that down more but that was by going even higher and even faster). 20 votes, 21 comments. Have a plane that ditches its wings and rockets up to 18km once you reach the right point. My 'plane science' is more advanced than my 'rocket science' (career mode) because I got tired of seeing all the high-altitude missions I had on the books and wanted to finish them. Paste as plain text instead, This tutorial will cover designing and flying a plane that can soar at high altitudes! A full suite of flaps on the trailing edges of the main wings give it exceptional low-speed lift, and small hydroplane steps mounted on each side of the fuselage bottom help lift it out of the water (lowering water drag) during takeoff runs. You'll notice that usually your prograde marker is slightly below your pitch. The flight time won't be as long, but you'll be able to fly a "plane" above 18km. I start with the normal jet engines (which takes almost the complete runway). Rockets aren t the only way to get to space. Why is there a voltage on my HDMI and coaxial cables? You can post now and register later. For more information, please see our New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. They always seem to lose power at about 15km, but I'm wondering if there's something I can do to fix that. Isn't that backwards snark? A well-designed jet with this engine and with the afterburner lit, flown properly, can momentarily climb to 30,000 m altitude. Air Flow + max. Anyway thanks in advance. Pvt. Incidentally, for these speeds and altitudes, ordinary jets are the better choice. Unfortunately, there's no simple rule to tell you what the angle needs to be when you're building the plane-- it depends on lots of variables, such as your weight, drag, intended cruising altitude, intended cruising speed. Check out the website and try the game out for yourself :Dhttps://kerbalspaceprogram.com/